An Actor Doesn't Just Memorize Lines
An interview with Danielle Bisutti on what it means to fully embody a character.
Season 3 of the Artwell podcast is available now! I studied God of War and interviewed its creators to find lessons that are relevant for modern creatives.
Danielle Bisutti is known for her fantastic performances as Freya in God of War (2018) and God of War: Ragnarok. In this exclusive interview she shares the depths she had to go to to embody Freya, the difference between directors Cory Barlog and Eric Williams, and more.
If you’d like to listen to the full uncut interview with Danielle you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
*The below has been edited for pacing and clarity.
How do you find the emotional truth of the scene? Is that a conversation that needs to be had with the other actors or does everyone just understands at a baseline level what that feeling is supposed to be?
That depends on who you're working with. Some people just want to be really private and not have those conversations. That's their happy secret. That's their magic. Some actors will want to be like, ‘hey, let's talk about this scene, I'm having these thoughts’, and you can sort of explore more with somebody. Chris [Judge] and I, we're big preppers and our preparation process is different. But the one place where we really met was we were not afraid to open up old scars in our own life, it was like a requisite for these characters. They required us to lay bare our soul and all of our pain from choices of our past only so that we could understand the truth of what these characters were going through. When he showed up with all those feelings and looked me in the eye and I showed up with all that looking at him in the eye, we didn't really need to discuss it because it was right there. There were a few times we would talk about the script, because you have to remember, we were also getting things piecemeal. I think he might be the only one that actually read the full 900 pages. I don't think we did get the full script on [God of War 2018]. It's not like a feature script where you read it beginning, middle, end. A lot of times it was like, wait, where are we? What just happened? Where are we in the scope of the game? It was more questions like that, but it was a little less like, who are you thinking about when you say that line? I knew Chris was going to some deep dark places and he knew I was. He and I forged such a great trust and bond through this process of playing Kratos and Freya.
I don't think people realize how much of a selfless act that is for you to do that, to go to those dark places and to revisit those emotions.
I appreciate that, no one's ever said that. It is because I care. I care so much about Freya and I care so much about the legacy of this story. I care about my work and the quality of what I do. I'm never taking the shortcut. The get is the work and then the get back is the prize. I told you my two BAFTA noms are being framed right now, but to have that… that's a huge reflection of the quality. I take credit for half of it because the other half is this incredible writing. I can only say what the words are. I can only embody what is in the text. I always give it back to our writers, to Cory [Barlog], to Matt [Sophos], to Rich [Gaubert], to Eric [Williams], to Aly [Samson], the whole team that wrote this narrative that is hands down, I think, one of the most powerful and shape-shifting narratives in the pantheon of video games, I dare say. There's a few of them out there, but this is a game that teaches you to choose better and to break cycles, toxic patterns that are destructive. That's powerful. And so as selfless and as important as that message was, I knew that I had to meet it. The only way to do that was to go to those darker places and it was hard. There were times when I felt drained. I never questioned if it was going to translate and get through though. I guess that's kind of what gets you through it is you just know you're part of this organism. For the first game I didn't know anything until I walked into the wrap party and I immediately started weeping when I saw the images of the characters, especially Freya. I think they played a little scene and I was completely blown away. But then it was really easy in Ragnarök to be like, oh yeah, now they need more from me and I better give it.
I've heard the volume described in almost sacred terms. What did Sony Santa Monica do to create such a special place?
Oh, gosh, every single person brought that same reverence. It's so true. There were moments of joking around — there was a little bit of levity, but not a whole lot because the tone of the show is not a comedy, right? There was just this respect level from everyone to sound, to makeup, to everyone behind the console, whether they were animating or capturing. Sometimes our brilliant casting director, Jamie Bafus would come in and sit behind the glass along with Alexa Kolb. I'll never forget the moment [GOD OF WAR 2018 SPOILERS] where Kratos kills Baldur. That day was — I think everyone's heart was just being torn from their chest. Because who hasn't experienced that kind of betrayal or the thought that there's only one thing that can repair my life and then someone just took that too. It was not hard for me to access those emotions because as you probably heard, I was going through a divorce where I felt really blindsided and very much betrayed. It was all there. I think we did it three times and every time there was just this hushed silence and it was palpable, you could just feel it and you could see the tears in everybody's faces. [GOD OF WAR: RAGNAROK SPOILERS] The same thing happened at Brock's funeral or when Brock was dying in Sindri's arms and both Robert [Craighead] and Adam [Harrington's] beautiful performance or when Kratos looks at the cryptic and he realizes his life mattered and people would remember him for the good. It's like after all the bad and all the dead bodies in the wake and all the vengeance and the vitriol and everything that was taken from him… he had such a redemption story. Both Freya and Kratos, are like the masculine and feminine version of each other in a lot of ways The yin and the yang had both got this great redemption. Nobody knew in God of War 4 what the response was going to be. That was a huge risk. Cory had the idea, and I'm sure that there were lots of conversations, but he's like, we've got to give him a son. Cory just had a son and Cory's very intuitive. He's really in touch with that sort of more feminine aspect of really trusting his gut. That can be challenging when it's been going one way and it's had success to say we're going to go 180 degrees this way. We all knew there was magic happening but it was almost like everyone’s hearts were beating because it was like, is this gonna translate? Is this gonna work? You know, Kratos questioning his choices, the God of War having a tear in his eye, like what is happening? Then of course, when that hit it was like a behemoth, like a juggernaut in the world of the Metacritics, and the way people were feeling, grown men crying at their consoles, and then naming their daughters Freya and [sons] Kratos and Atreus. It hit the zeitgeist in such a place where everyone was ready to receive it. Everyone was ready to grow up a little bit, and learn something here through this character's journey. We didn't know that but we knew it was something new and special. Then of course in Ragnarok, it was different. It was like, don't F this up. We had so much more at stake. So many new characters, we bring in Odin and Thor, and Sigrun's relationship with Mimir, and my brother Freyr, and and Faye. I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple of the others — it was so massive. It was this behemoth sized thing that was already this huge tsunami of success. It was like, we've got to be bigger. We have to raise the bar on every level. The excellence must rise and everyone felt it. All of the new castmates felt it, it was a silent agreement and everyone did their part.
I'm curious if you could explain to me in your own words, the difference between Cory Barlog and Eric Williams.
There's a reason why Cory set the tone. It was the inception or the seed of giving him a son. [It was a] very emotional game for the sensitivity level that came through. Cory was very much like a father with all of us, he has a very fatherly quality, he was the father who was very involved with the kids on a more intimate level, shepherding in that way. And remember the game, even though it was a bigger turn, it was a smaller narrative than Ragnarok, which was a massive story, along with all the new gameplay and all the crushing and killing. The fact that we had Cory lay the foundation of these core characters, which I would say, Kratos, Atreus, and Freya are the core trilogy, this sort of de facto family that found each other and forging a beautiful friendship. They sort of dovetailed through each other and initiated each other in their transformation and their growth in a very lovely way. But of course, they had to be at odds at one point. Because that foundation was laid, when we continued the story, but added a legion of other characters to help bring it to a full fruition [SPOILER] where you have Kratos and Freya, with Mimir, and all of his levity he brings along the way – Alistair Duncan is absolutely brilliant and also super emotional and very intuitive himself, that the three of us would be there in the end, looking out at the wreckage and being like, let's put the pieces back together. We'll see to this together. Brilliant. Why Eric was, I think, well suited and the best choice for Ragnarok is because he is that technical brain. Whereas Cory could maybe feel things out, [Eric] could just see things out and he could just come in with such precision and such a note where he could make the turn just like this. I never felt like we were on a clock, but we were on a clock and we lost time because of COVID, which put even more pressure on the Ragnarok journey. I had Matt [Sophos] there and Matt would help me with a little bit more of the emotional content and resonance of Freya, where's Freya in the story emotionally? He really helped me with some of the technical aspects, but also where Eric was really great for someone like me, who's a real feeler, is that when it came to Freya's strength and simplicity, he could just come in and give me that one line of direction and it would just simplify and anchor. It was fantastic. He's just what I needed personally. That was my experience with him. The last thing I'll say about Eric is he's been with the game, I believe since one, so he's understood this narrative and this game inside and out. He said at our wrap party that Ragnarok, and I'm gonna paraphrase, I apologize, but it was something about Ragnarok being like a storm. It was this perfect storm and all the different characters and stories were these ships that were out at sea and they were rocking on the tumultuous waters. He likened himself to a lighthouse that was taking the briny salty waves crashing against it and the seagulls flying by and shitting all over it, sort of weathering in the salty rain that would come down. But he was the lighthouse that brought all the ships of Ragnarok home. He stood very solid in the middle of all of that and knowing what the stakes were, and he delivered. It was a pleasure. Of course, it was scary. The change was scary, because it's like, wait, don't fix it if it's not broken. We reached the mountain top and it was Cory's idea. [But] then once I understood Eric's gifts and what Eric was going to bring to it, it was perfect. It was absolutely perfect.
What's one of the better notes that Eric gave you?
[RAGNAROK SPOILERS] There’s one that I could highlight right now, there were many. There was a lot of pressure on this moment: I'm holding Odin in my hand. He's in this little marble. My whole life since the betrayal has all been about revenge, getting my vengeance on this man, making him feel the pain. Last time when she got the noose around him, she could just taste it. And here was my one moment to finalize it, [the moment] that I'd been thinking about for over 180 years. I didn't realize how simple I could be and trust that all of the emoting and the pain and the journey that me and the character had already gone through, and that the audience or the gamers had already experienced, that in that moment, it wasn't weeping, I think I was thinking it needed to be something more than really what it was, which was like, ‘I no longer need this to make me whole’. It was a simple epiphany. I think [Eric] came over to me and said, ‘all the work you've done, everything you felt, trust that and just know that this is probably one of the simplest moments for her. She's arrived and she doesn't need it anymore’. I knew in that moment, that's true forgiveness because when you can truly forgive and you can truly surrender, it's almost a quiet thing. You've already gone through all the yelling and screaming and tears. He said that and it was just like, everything dropped. Everything I was holding from the whole game, the weight of everything Freya had been through and the responsibility and all of it and the emotion, just dropped and it just simplified like that. That's the articulation that he has. It was rich and it didn't mean anything more than just that.
What does art done well mean to you?
It changes lives. Art done well changes perspectives. It enriches our experience. Art is some expression of our human experience, whether it's abstract, surreal, realism, classical, all the different isms of life and expression and experience and how we mature. Sometimes you feel like you're caught in a surrealistic painting and everything's melting around you. It's like none of it makes sense when you're in an absurdist painting and you're just laughing at everything like this is the most absurd thing. I think it’s the fullest expression of our human experience, and it also unifies us. It unifies no matter what culture you're from, whatever background, whatever faith, whatever you're calling yourself these days, it doesn't really matter if you are a human being and you are in some form of your expression in your lifespan. If there's a piece of art that speaks to you and it speaks to another person across the world – that's your way in with each other. Isn't that a beautiful gift? You don't feel so alone and you don't feel isolated. There's that connection. We were meant to be in connection with our tribes and with our people. That's how we were designed, not to be the hermit witch under the turtle in which, Freya probably realized at some point, she can't live under this damn turtle forever… as much as I love you, Chaurli! She needed to get her wings back, but part of that meant having to go through the pain, and a big part of it meant having to take responsibility for her choices and to grow up a little bit, and really the mea culpa aspect that she and Kratos go through to earn that place back from a whole new standpoint, from a real place of sovereignty, because they were able to take responsibility. That's what art can do. That's what a video game can do. It can inspire people to be better. It requires some hard work and some real honest self reflection. It's not pleasant a lot of the time. But the reward is truth. The reward is a better version of you in the world that can bring about peace, love, and connection. As a microcosm in the macro sense… and isn't that what we all want?
Thanks for reading! If you haven’t already, make sure you subscribe to the newsletter for more essays that help you become a more thoughtful artist. If you want to learn more about God of War, you’ll like Season 3 of the Artwell podcast where I studied the making of the games and interviewed its creators to find lessons that are relevant for modern creatives.